Hi, and welcome to this week's episode of Money with Alpha. This week, I have a lovely guest who I've been trying to get on here for quite a while, and she's finally here. Hi, Isabella. Hi, Alpha. Hi, everyone. So Isabela Bucciol is I've known her for a number of years now, and our daughters go to school together and they're very good friends too. So I've gotten to watch your journey. So we're going to went in go into a little bit of that. But at the moment, for now and going forward, Isabela is a counselor and psychotherapist, as well as a family constellation practitioner. We're going to delve into what all of that is, because I've been in the world of personal development in different modalities, but I had never heard of constellation before, so I was fascinated by it, and I've experienced just a little bit of it, and it's very powerful. So we'll, we'll delve into that as well. But first of all, Isabela, do you want to give us a little bit of your background where you started out and a little bit how you came to Australia? 'Cause this isn't where you were born or grew up. So what then motivated that move? Yeah. Yeah. So thank you for having me here in your podcast, Alpha. Im really happy. I'm a bit ... as I mentioned just a couple of minutes before 'cause usually, you know, talking, it's not really my favorite things to do, even though I'm getting better. But it's more the thought about this the thought about talking. Then when I am in the moment, usually I just go. Yeah so I'm a counselor and I'm a psychotherapist. My master degree was done in Australia, so that's kind of a recent change of career for me. And before, I work in human resource, so in, in Italy, which is my country I had a degree on human resource, training and development specifically, which is... You know, in Australia, it's not really a degree, it's more like a certificate, but for me it was a degree. Mm-hmm. And this is where I come from. I think I I I've always been passionate about Mm-hmm. and how mind and behavior are interconnected. Mm-hmm. And I think it was my biggest passion, you know, since I was kind of a teenager, so I always read very heavy ... I have to say. Like Freud and psychoanalysis, and you not probably something that usually teenagers read. Yeah. But that was my biggest passion, and I really enjoy reading these. And so then when I had to choose my degree, I was, "Okay, that's, that's my path, right? Psychology." Mm-hmm. But then it turned into something different because of a very practical reason. Like I couldn't... In in Italy, it's a bit different, and so the classes were compulsory, and at that moment, I couldn't really commit to being there 'cause I had to work to, you know, pay for my uni. Mm-hmm. And so I said, "Okay, probably that's not my path, so let's find an alternative that could be psychology and human being-" Mm-hmm. "... people," 'cause I'm a people person. I'm really social. I like to be with people. Mm-hmm. And I was lucky enough that the, the city where I choose to do my degree was there, like the university, and was yeah, training and development, which I, I really love. I really love. Yeah. And also because it meant the organization on site, like working in organization and companies and... Yeah. So I think it, it was a good choice. Yeah. You sort of managed to, to sort of fulfill that human aspect and then doing it in a way which sort of... yeah, probably didn't get a lot of depth that you do now, Yes. ... but yes. Yeah. And it's interesting the paths that we take. I always have to, to giggle when... I mean, when... And I still remember feeling as a teenager that, "Oh my gosh, the choice I make now is going to determine the rest of my life." And, and I remember my my stepdaughter felt the same at that age too, and I thought, "Oh my goodness, this is, this is..." But then when you are on the other side of that, and you're kind of like... Im further away from 17 than I am close to and you kind of go, "Wow, the path really does deviate and twist and turn," and here you are, starting a new career at your sort of, your different phase of life. And so it is possible, so Yeah. Yes. really, you know, kudos to you for, for pursuing Yes. 'cause it's been a lot of hard work. It was. It was, yes. And I, I have to say that, you know, I, I wasn't really a brilliant student, and in high school, I really struggled. I think not because of what I was studying, not because of the Mm-hmm. ... but because of everything else that was going on in my life and in my family. So then when I finished high school, I really didn't want to do any study at all, so I took one year off schools, off studies, just to understand what I wanted to do. Yeah. Yeah. And, and it was a good year. ... at That, that gap year is... Yeah. Yeah. I think it's, it's, it's good. I didn't do it, and I somewhat regret it 'cause I was like, "Oh, I feel like I just..." 'Cause I finished high school quite young, so I was 16 when I finished grade 12, and then went straight into university, but I was afraid that if I didn't do it then, I would never do it, 'cause I Mm-hmm. I was little bit like, oh, pushed from my, my mother and my grandmother, was like, "You have to do this." And if I didn't, I would have... you know, the wrath would have been tremendous, or at least the perception of it. So I was more scared of them than anything else. So in... being in, in Italy, what was-... and, and your family as well, 'cause there were, there was some turmoil. But how does money get... Does it get talked and spoken about in, in Italy? Is it, like, another, is it a taboo subject? And in terms of, like, the role of women in that, in like, working and being independent, I have these ideas in my head that, you know, similar to my, my father's Eastern European culture, which is different from Italian, but, you know, the woman is kind of like the, the accessory to the man who just sort of that, that's their pathway to wealth is finding a husband. Was that like that in Italy as well or what was, what was, what was your experience? Yeah, it was like that for sure. You know, first of all, Italy is very different so when you say Italy, you know, you think about the country, but actually from north to south there is there are a lot of differences. Yeah. So I come from the north so I bring my, you know, Yeah. perspective in this. And yes, that's true. Back then women were pretty much like housewives and, you know, they stay at home looking after children and the house and the man was the one going to work. But I can't say this about my family because my mom never stayed home and she always work. Coming from, you know, her background as well, she started to work at a very young Mm-hmm. ... to help the family. Immigrants by the way. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And yeah, immigration is part of my family background and I never realized this before coming to Australia. Mm-hmm. But then, you know, there was one point when I said, "Well, I went all the other side of the world and I have an uncle here, an uncle there, an auntie here, an auntie there," and I, I realized that my family it's all spread around the world. Yeah. So yeah. So, money in my family was such a difficult topic. Mm-hmm. As I said, my mom always work and she work in, with my father. They built a Mm-hmm. ... a factory. They were making, making furniture. Mm-hmm. Very artisan, you know, like from scratch. Yeah. And they built this company together which was a very, you know, healthy company back then. And they started before I was born. Mm-hmm. And then eventually it grows, it grew up and, yeah. It, it, it's still alive Mm-hmm. but not as wealthy as it was like 40 years ago. Yeah. And my mom always worked in the company. Mm-hmm. But the relationship between my parents wasn't the best relationship. Mm-hmm. It was a kind of a toxic relationship. And so probably, you know, it didn't help managing a business and a family together, wasn't really a good thing for them. Yeah. So the two world, you know, play into each other a lot. Mm-hmm. And the the money were always a burden. Like there was never money, never enough money for the family. We couldn't do a lot of things. And this was especially when I was there. Like from what my mom and my parents told me, it was different before I was born. Mm-hmm. In the '70s, you know, the, Italy had an economic boom so there was, you know, very wealthy. It it was very good. But then it changed. Mm-hmm. And so I was born when it changed unfortunately. Mm-hmm. But then there was also a difference in the way they deal with money themselves. So, my father has, had always had a relationship with money which was money equal power and control. Mm-hmm. So he used this a lot even, you know, with us children and with my mom. And for my mom, money were there never enough. Yep. There never enough and I have to sacrifice Mm-hmm. ... for the family, right? Mm-hmm. So that was the environment I grew up with. Yeah. And then trying to navigate that, learning about psychology, and then recognizing that you are empowered to make changes. And that's, that's quite tremendous because a a lot of people will just kind of repeat the pattern. It sort of tends to go majority tend to sort of follow the path and even if they, they kind of deviate to start with, they end up sort of, end up going back to that. Like I even notice myself you know, there's some things that I saw my mother do with money when I was growing up and I was like, "Oh, I'm never gonna be like that." And then sure enough in my mid-20s, I was like, "Oh my goodness, I'm becoming my mother." But then I had to, like, make a conscious effort to, to change that. And so you, you moved over to the other side of world which is be a pretty big pattern interrupt. Yes. So what's, what triggered you to come to Australia? I think money probably was in there in my decision. Yeah. I always wanted to travel the world. That was an inner feeling, something that has always been with Yeah. ... again since I was very little probably because of my family background. I don't know if this if it was an unconscious kind of memory that I carry. But yes. And I had an opportunity to go as an au pair in Mm-hmm. ... which I refused back Mm-hmm. because I had to finish high school. So, I prioritized the school and I didn't want to do that. Probably one decision that... The one that you say, you know, if I could go back in time, I would choose to do the other way. Yeah. But anyway so then, you know, finish high school, start university, finish university with all the struggle of money and seeing my parents struggling with money, my Mm-hmm. struggling with money. And my mind was always, "I have to be responsible. I have to be, you know, mature. I have to do this." So whenever my mom wasn't able, "I want to do this for my mom." Mm-hmm. And I start to work very early. So I was 14 when I start to work during the high school and, you know, weekends or the festivity. And actually one year I, I work pretty much all year during school. Mm-hmm. But then it was always like, you know, something that you want to, to reach and you never, you're never able to get. Mm-hmm. Right? It's like a, how do you say in English? A kind of mirror. a goal that just never... it's, it's Yes. It's like the, the carrot that keeps moving. exactly. Exactly, exactly. So then when I finished uni, I decide, okay, that's... If I wait, and I was 20 6, if I wait to go to see the world, I will never do it. And so, that's reason why I said, "Okay, that's the moment. Now is the moment that I have to do it." Yep. Not regardless of whatever is there. Yep. So I really took this decision. And back then, I wasn't sure where to go. So Australia was not really my first choice. Yep. There was Brazil which I'd been there and it was a beautiful country. I I really loved it. So I was, "Okay, let's go to Brazil or Australia." In Australia, I had a brother and my best friend was here. Mm-hmm. And they keep saying, "Oh, you know, Australia great, what beautiful country." You know, it's, you know, "There are money, there are a lot of good opportunities here." So that's why I decide to go on the other side of the very far away. And probably not by case. I really go, went, you know, far Yeah. from my family. And then when I arrive here in Australia, they, the money perception was different. Very different. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's a wealthy country. Probably, you know, a lot of people know that. Mm-hmm. There are a lot of opportunities. And, you know, I really thought, "Okay, maybe, let's see what will happen," right? Yeah. Even if it wasn't easy, 'cause I came with a working holiday visa, so that was good. Awesome, right? You can stay here for one year, Yeah. ... do holiday. I basically always work. I've never had many holidays. But I saw the simplicity and, you know, how easy it was to have Mm-hmm. ... and save money. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It's interesting because like everything, everyone, there's this perception of, "Oh, the way it is here is hard or it's complicated," or whatever, and then someone else comes in, they're like, "Oh my gosh, this is so much easier than what we have," and then it, there's all this, like, comparisonitis that happens. But ultimately, our journeys are all somewhat unique, but we can have common problems. And I think money, the lack of it creates problems, but then having it also create creates problems. So thinking that it's going to solve everything, it's the tool. Everything else is behind us. Yes. And, which is the work that you now do with people with the counseling and, and the psychotherapy and even the family constellation. Yes. But in the meantime, you decided to, you know, in a country that was so foreign to you, is to start a business. So you actually have built, with your partner, a successful business as well, which is... You, you've now stepped aside from to pursue your passion, which I think is also wonderful, but you have that you know, that achievement behind you as well. So, did that play into giving you, I suppose, encouragement that you are actually not so bad with money? Yes. I... From from one point of view, I don't think I was bad with money because I was actually a very good saver. Mm-hmm. I've always been very careful with money. Yeah. You know, savings or, you know, the, the mature part of me always look at, you know, you have to save Yes. ... be sure that you have like a buffer there. Mm-hmm. If something happen, pay your bills. So, I, I never really, I, I never struggle on this side. Mm-hmm. And I never ask for money, so I did everything pretty much by myself, which I'm, I'm a bit proud of. Yeah, of course, you should be. But then, yes, you know, there was this belief of you do a lot, you're doing a lot and you will, you never get-... to a Mm-hmm. ... where you want to be. Yeah. So, that was the struggle on my side. But Yeah. I built a business with my partner. I did it, this with him. Yeah. And I'm very happy that we were able to do this. This came after, you know, a, a long initial journey, you Mm-hmm. my sponsor and other things. Yeah. But then eventually, yes, we opened this business and it's a gelato shop, so that's Italian gelato shop. Yeah. My partner is the one that makes the gelato. Yep. So, it's actually the, the most important part of this of this is him making the gelato, of course, making the product. But then, you know, I come with him, next to him, managing every, all the other side. Yeah. The business itself, doing all of it, so. Yeah. The business itself wouldn't run without the backend. I, I Yeah, for both of us, right. Yeah. I always think about back in the '80s, they had like the VHS cassettes and then they had the Beta, and they were two different size cassettes. Quality-wise, from what I understand, the Beta were the better quality, but VHS had the better marketing machine. So, two products, very similar, but one promoted themselves better and the other one just disappeared. So, without that sort of marketing promotion, building the, the customer base and building that business, the product... Not that it doesn't matter, of course it matters but it's very important that the business engine is healthy. Sorry. Yes. I think it, it was our strength. Yeah. Two different people doing two different things, Yes. ... both of them very Yeah. ... and essential to the business, 'cause, you know, without one, you can't really have a business. Yeah. So, yeah. pivoting then into your your sort of new-ish career, although it's your, your love and your passion from a long time ago I'm really interested 'cause I, I, I'd like people to understand the concept of family constellation, and you definitely explain it a lot better than I would. So, can you share with the audience what it actually is, and why you think it is so powerful? Yes. I, I always say you have to come and experience because that's the the best way to understand. But, you Mm-hmm. of course, I explain what it is. And yes, at the end, I came back to what I like to do most now Yeah. ... I'm doing this work. I connect all the dots, Mm-hmm. that were in my life before. And so I, yes, I done family constellation, and I approached to this method 20, 20 years ago, more or less. Mm-hmm. was 21. No 22 actually, the the first time that I, I experienced family constellation. And I have to thanks my mom really, because she was the one saying, "Oh, you know, I'm doing this. That's something new. Do you want to come with me?" Mm-hmm. I said, "Okay." You know, I've always been very open to trying new things. Yeah. And the fact that she was doing this was also surprising for me. She was going through, you know, a divorce and, you know, separation. So yes, I went there and my experience was a bit fearful at the, at the beginning. I was Mm-hmm. "There are a lot of people here." I think we were like 50 plus people in, in the room doing weird stuff 'cause the, the opening was like dancing. And even Which you would have loved. Yes. you know me, I love dancing, but dancing in front of other people wasn't my thing back then. I was really shy, I have to be honest, not, not the person I am today. But anyway, you know, and we sit down in this group, and I actually had my first, my constellation, so I work as a client. And to me, it was surprising and eye-opening, and it answer a lot of question that I had for a very long time. And the weight that I felt on my shoulder back Mm-hmm. ... was just there in front of me. The reason why I felt that way was just there in front of me. And where I had a lot of, you know, answers from here, I also had a lot of question left. Yeah. But it was a really good experience. Very different, different from other things. Yeah. And then during my life, I always done family constellation as client, so participating as client for Yeah. ... to understand a little bit more, to understand, you know, the kind of stuck I felt I was Mm-hmm. ... during many times of my life. if. And when I arrived to to Australia, I tried to find something like this, and it wasn't common. Yeah. I realize that wasn't... that that wasn't around. Yeah. And I found just one person who was doing this. Yeah. And funny things, she was in Brisbane, where, you know, very close to where I was living back then. And funny again, I opened my gelato shop exactly in the suburb where she was. So I think it wasn't by case really. Yeah. I don't believe in many coincidences, so yeah. ... a career, so back in the kind of psychology space, I said Because I really like this approach, and I really see how it impacts people in a positive way-" Mm-hmm. "... I want to learn how to do this." Mm-hmm. And so, that's why then I went to my course, I did my training, and I became the family predictioner. Yeah. Systemic family prediction. Yeah. And I think the thing that that I like the most about it, and this, this happens a lot with, with not just money but a lot of the issues that we have, is that they're kind of taken on from family history. There's so much stuff that's buried in our DNA that we, you know, we don't necessarily recognize consciously, but it's impacting us. So that, you know, that feeling of, "Why do I never feel like I'm reaching my goals?" Or why, you know, there's, there's, there's this intangible thing that we can't really articulate or understand, because we might not have had a direct experience of it, or at least not a direct conscious experience. And you can look back in your history, like I look back at my, my grandmother and my great-grandmother, and I look at the period of history which was very tumultuous. And think, "I can conceptualize how and why they were the way they were, and how that's probably impacted me." But the family constellation or systemic constellation goes back into that family, that family origin, the, you know, what's actually kind of transpired back then. And it's, it's also taking it a little bit outside yourself, and that's why you need other people in a group environment to kind of play it back to you with the perspective in roles that you wouldn't normally have thought to Yeah. ... because we're, you know, we're stuck in our own heads and our own bodies but somebody else can see things possibly clearer when they look at us than we can see it on ourselves. So I, that's why I think it's quite, quite powerful. And you do it in group environments now as well, so Yes. you hold workshops here. You can do it Mm-hmm. ... which is a little bit Yeah. and you can do it in group. I always Yeah. the group part, Yeah. ... of course, you know, you have the energy of the other people plays in. So to, to give you a, a little bit of a, an explanation that probably is useful also for the people that are listening to Mm-hmm. ... family constellation had influences of other approaches. Mm-hmm. One of these was Anne Okay. ... who is the one that talk about psychology and the genogram, so our family tree. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And she saw in her experience something that was really particular. Mm-hmm. She saw what she called anniversaries. So she she Mm. in working with clients, right? Yeah. Because she was a psychotherapist. In working with clients, she saw how experiences were repeatedly during the life of a Mm-hmm. ... in a very specific timeframe. Mm-hmm. So that's why she call it anniversary. Right. Because somehow the client was experiencing something or had an episode of Mm-hmm. ... that was back in the Mm-hmm. seven years before, and seven years before again, and seven Mm-hmm. ... before again, happened the same things over generation, right? Yeah. So she, she found this connection, and it's, it's very interesting to read her books. Then there is another influence from Moreno and Mm-hmm. ... which is very similar to family constellation, but there is a kind of a script in psychodrama. They, it's, it's more like Okay. ... where in family constellation, there isn't any script, and it's Mm-hmm. not acting. Yeah. But also, what is important in family constellation is what happen when you are in a group. Mm-hmm. And this touches into the work of Sheldrake, Rupert Right. ... who was the one that saw that there is a kind of morpho, he call it morphogenetic Mm-hmm. ... and morphic resonance. Right. That sounds very probably difficult words today I, I am, I will explain these. He sees in nature Mm-hmm. as he sees a system, so what a system Mm-hmm. Yeah. ... and how the elements of one system relate to each other. Mm-hmm. Not just for Mm-hmm. ... not just for DNA and not just for Mm-hmm. ... but more at an unconscious level. Right. So he says the it looks like, right, that the system carry a kind of a Mm-hmm. ... and somehow-... because we are all made of Mm-hmm. ... we have this memory embedded in us. Yeah. So, we behave in a way, Yeah. ... that is because we have this memory. Mm-hmm. But tell me if I explained this well. Yeah. No, and it's It doesn't complicated. Yeah. No, no. It's Yeah, it's interesting 'cause there, there's a few words sort of rolling around in my head now, like quantum physics and that whole nature versus nurture. There's, there's so much more to it and I think Yeah. that's sort of going towards sort of the explanation of are we all, you know, s-... Is it only nurture? Uh-uh. There's nature in there. Why? Because there's morphology, there's, you know, epigenetics, and even the energetic field like around the, you know, the the quantum Mm-hmm. Yes, well has has really started to, to become a lot more well-known and a lot better understood. Yeah. Correct, I think a lot of this is helping with that too. Yeah. Because we come from, you know, the theory of Darwin, we come from, you know, the DNA and the discover of genomes, but the research has shown that it wasn't enough to Yeah. a lot of dynamics. Yeah. Well, I... 'Cause I'm like, well, you're, you're fasci-... I'm fascinated by habits, and habits kind of tie into that a little bit as well because we're like, "Why is it so hard to change that?" And you're like, "Well, our brains are still very much fight or flight survival because of our genetics and where we've actually, like, originated." So, there's all of that going on in the background and we've now created this modern world relatively quickly to the point where our DNA and our brain structures and all of that haven't been able to actually really catch up with what's truly going on . So, there's so many things our brains are thinking are gonna, like, like hurt us and, and this is where, like, the money side comes in too because any time we try to make a change and it's like our brains have this alarm system going off like, "Ooh, ooh, danger. You're making a change. No, no, no. We're gonna cut this down. We're gonna take you back to where you used to always be. You know those patterns that kept you alive? We're gonna take you right back there because what you're doing now we don't get. We don't understand it. We don't have a point of reference for it. Your, all of your programming is sitting back here. You wanna change the program? Mm-mm. We don't know what's gonna happen, so you step it off, you could step off the cliff. We don't know what's there." Yes. So, yeah. And with, you know, mindset, beliefs, all this part around money, which is, you know, you, you, what you Yeah. ... it's absolutely an important aspect and is an aspect. Yeah. My work is more into the unconscious. Yeah. What we carry from generation. Yes. And when it comes to family constellation, money... a lot of things, but money in this case, is pretty much related to loyalty. Mm-hmm. So, whatever happened in our past Yeah. ... that was like a betrayal, that sounded like, you know, "I kill for money," or, you know, "I stole money from Mm-hmm. ... or even, you know, there was a debt that wasn't repaid. Mm-hmm. That's an unconscious That, that's an something that happened and wasn't resolved, so the burden keeps coming back, coming back into generation. Yeah. And what happen is because it's... we, we are talking about a Mm-hmm. ... the unconscious mind goes into, "I have to belong to this system and to belong to this system, I have to be loyal to whatever happened back then." Mm-hmm. And so, that's why, you know, maybe you have money but you waste money, right? You throw money away or you, you gamble or, you know, a lot of these Yeah. ... or "I worked so hard but then I never received the money for what I did." Mm-hmm. Many, many different things. Yeah. But they are unconscious. Yeah. And in family constellation, you can see that when you work with Yeah. ... you really sees where it's coming from, like the, the very first episode that happened. Yeah. Yeah, and then you can go back and heal it? And then you can go back and heal it. Yes. Definitely. Yeah. You can do that. There are laws. You know? It's, it's a specific There, there, there is a specific law and order and, you know, that you have to follow. Yeah. So, it's not something just throw there and, you know, whatever. No. There are actually laws. Yeah. And these laws come from the inventor, like the founder of family constellation, who was Bert Hellinger. Mm-hmm. And in briefly, I tell you the story very brief he was a missionary in Africa, South Mm-hmm. ... and he stayed with the Zulu tribes. Mm-hmm. And he saws the, the the dynamics in the group, like in the tribes. Mm-hmm. And what regulates these dynamics. So then he, you know, he started to do family constellation based on this. Right. And belonging is one of the first and most important law to follow. Yeah. 'Cause without that, you're out on your own, subject to whatever predator is out there, with no one to protect you or kind of help you. So Mm-hmm. Yeah. And that, that's what Yes. what what we do as human tribes. It's belonging to your family, right? It's belonging to your system that Yeah. ... very important. Yeah. And if the person decide to do something Mm-hmm. which goes unconsciously, you know, against the rule of the Mm-hmm. that's where the entanglement happen. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's, it's interesting actually. You know, there's that whole, they talk about, you know, rebels or people who are breaking the rules or... And you're like, "Are there people who are, I suppose, born to question the system, to break all paradigms?" Do you believe that? I think yes. Thats interesting because the Anne Schutzenberg she talk about this like a child that is born for one Yeah. because the system needs that. Yeah. And yeah, that's, that's very interesting. And you know, we could talk a lot about this. Yeah. Yeah. But yes, then what happen is if you don't follow whatever the system wants, so you are the rebel or the black Mm-hmm. ... that is good for Mm-hmm. ... but you carry the weight of this Mm-hmm. ... and so then you have to kind of heal within the family Yeah. Yeah, it's sort better. Yeah. And also to sort To ... normalize the change. Otherwise, it's just you blazing a trail and it's not actually really making any kind of improvement or impact, and sometimes the impacts can be positive or negative too. So it's there's, this is the thing with like money, with energy, it can be used for good, it can be used for evil, for want of a better word. You know, there's, it's, it's, it's sort of, it's neutral. It's agnostic. Mm-hmm. So we, we have to then decide who we want to be in that, in that space. And also work with the information that we've got, 'cause that's the other thing too. You know, we're, we're all told certain things about our histories, but are they really true? Theres a few things in, in my family history where I'm like, I know the stories that I've verbally heard but there's something about them that just doesn't feel, ring true to me. You know, there's just certain pieces that don't feel like they connect. So the family constellation would help to understand that. And there's, and that's not to say that everything needs to be understood or clarified, but in some cases I think it can heal past wounds, which then create this energy block that removes and then you can move forward and then make sure that your children as well don't, don't fall prey to the same patterns again and again. Yes. And it's the recognition of Yeah. ... that heal. And it doesn't mean that you, like the healing doesn't come from you don't following what you want to do and agree to the system. Mm-hmm. The healing comes from I see what happened and now this system accept whatever happened, and so I'm included even though I choose a different Yes. Okay. ... so in this regard. And of course, in doing that, you break the cycle so it's, it benefit your children because they will do the same cycle. Yeah. You Yeah. Yeah. 'Cause you can make a, if you, if it's, if there's agency involved, I think, in the decision, if it's something that's done without your consent, for want of a better word, or conscious acknowledgement, the unconscious just sort of sits there behind it and you end up sort of either feeling like you don't fit or, you know, in conflict constantly without even realizing why. But if you get to the point where you can reconcile why and the conflict dissolves away, then you can still be you but belong at the same time. Yeah. Super important. Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Right. We, we all want to belong to our family, right? We come from our parents. We come from our ancestors. So this is the, our place. Yeah. Yeah. So of course. Yeah. And we're all related. I know, like, you know, our daughters are, are learning about, you know, how creatures and beings have evolved over time. And she'll come and she says, "Does that mean I am related to Matilda?" And I was like, "Yeah." She's like, "Yeah, she is my sister." I was like, it's such a beautifully you know, innocent thing for a child to say. I was like, "I really wish there was more in the world where we could say, 'You know what? We are all related. So can we stop fighting please?'". Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. look for the commonalities rather than the differences." True. Absolutely true. Yes. All right. Anyway, that's, that's a, that's a bigger problem to tackle. Right now, we'll just, you know, one person and one family at a time. Yes. To add to this family constellation doesn't work just for family. Mm-hmm. ... work for every system. Mm-hmm. And that means you can bring this into businesses, for instance, or you Mm-hmm. in a professional field and you Yeah. apply family constellation to this as well. So, even though it is part of you know, our family of origin and our Mm-hmm. ... but we can apply in a business context, Yeah. context. Yeah. Well, this is where I like the word systemic, when... And that makes more sense now, hearing you explain it. I was like Yes the different systems-" Yes. "... that we've sort of created and bringing it into that sphere." Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Because obviously, you're bringing lots of people from different family backgrounds together in a business whether it's your clients, or your coworkers, or your staff, and there's different systems that they're all belonging to as well, because then we've got sort of like the cultural, the religious, the beliefs or spiritual, all of that kind of coming together. So yeah, so we can work on the systems. Even thinking, you know, you work in an office with 20 other people and there is one person that you really don't get along with because, you know, she looks like my right? Or she behave like my moms, and you don't have a good relationship with your mom, so, you know, that's the trigger there. Yes. Yeah, yeah. No, it's interesting that, yeah, we're aware that... Where you're like, "Oh, that person reminds me of so-and-so, that's why they just rub me up the wrong way." Or, you know, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, it's awesome. So how do people find out more about you? What's... And what you do? There's... So just, yeah, just give us a brief idea of what the people can do next. Okay. So I have a website which is called Mind and Soul Nurturing. Mm-hmm. And there, there are a lot of information. There is of course, the counseling and psychotherapy 'cause I also do this individual, and I'm also specialize in couple therapy. Yep. And family constellation group workshop, which I run usually once a month, and people can find the information there. Yeah. I think when And if book their... Sorry. They come, you know, they... If they want to participate, they just need to book the ticket or if they want, you know, more information, they can easily send me an email and I'm always, you know, happy to reply to any question, because I know people will have a lot of question. Yes, yes, yeah. It's it's a lot to go through to try and get your head around it to start with. But like you said, it's experiential. Yes, exactly. it's very much experiential. And to come there and feel it is the best way. Yeah. I know it can be, you know, scary to be in a group and if you've never done something like that, there is a little bit of anxiety Mm-hmm. ... but you know, we are all there for the same reason. and also, it's a very private and confidential space, so, you know, I maintained, even during family constellation workshop, I maintain all the ethical boundaries and, you know, of of my work as a counselor. Yeah, yeah. So it's that safe space, which is important. Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think To say the Sorry? ... we... I have an event coming up next when is the 20th of September. Yes, yes. So that I hope you that's going to be a special one. Yes, exactly. So you talk about this. Well, I was just... Where Isabella and I are going to be doing it together. So you'll be... Isabella will be the driving force, I'll add some of the financial side as well. So we're going to be doing sort of the financial system, sort of systemic constellation to sort of delve into some of the past and break some of those patterns in a way that might have felt really hard to shift in the past. So, it's going to be very exciting working together. Yes, yes. Yeah. Wonderful. I'm very work with you. Yes. Oh, likewise. So we'll put all those links into the show notes, so you can follow Isabella on socials have a look at her website. And yeah, if you're in Brisbane, come along to a session. And if you're not in Brisbane, online is the next best way to do it. You know, there's lots of different opportunities to do that, from the counseling and psychotherapy to the constellation as well. So that is all possible online too. Yes. I also have a Facebook page, Instagram so people can follow me there and see what I do and if what I say resonate with them. Yeah. But also, yes, in the nearest future, I would... We'll also do some constellation online. Yep. Wonderful. Just to give people more the, you know, more opportunity to do this great work. Yeah, yeah. No, it is. It's it's, yeah, it's quite remarkable actually. I was so surprised I'd never heard of it before, but now I'm like, "Oh, this is great." So thank you again very much for being so open and sharing all of that wonderful information. You know, there's lots to unpack in that, so I think we're going to have to have another conversation about this. Whenever you want. It's always a pleasure, you know, to speak with you. Lovely. Likewise. Thank you again for having me in your podcast. I, you Wonderful. I hope that a lot of people will find this helpful. Yes. Oh, I'm sure they will. You might even need to listen to some of that again 'cause it's... Yeah, it'll be playing around in your mind. So thank you again, and everyone listening, have a wonderful week and we'll catch you next episode. Thank you. Bye-bye.
