Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome to this week's episode of Money with Alpha. Today, I am very excited because I have Sujit Menon on the call here. Welcome, Sujit.
Speaker 2: Hi, Alpha.
Speaker 1: And we are going to be talking about a topic that I... This is, this is as much for me as it is for the listeners because I'm really interested to learn more about the crypto side of investing, which I haven't really gone into. So before we get into that though, because one of the other things that I get really passionate about for business owners in particular, is this separation between your business and personal life. And seeing what is producing the income in your business to then put it into your business and actually build and grow wealth. And in order to do that, you have to invest. And there's lots of different ways to do that, and I know there's a lot of talk about property. Theres also a lot of talk about crypto, particularly Bitcoin. What does that actually mean? So we'll delve into that too. But before we do, tell us a little bit about you, Sajid. What your background is a little bit about your business and what it does as well.
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely. So I was born in Kuwait and then I moved to... I, I lived there for 20 years, half my life there, and then moved here in 2005.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: So I did my engineering, bachelor of engineering, so you know, computer engineering, so I was an engineer. I worked as an engineer for two years, and then I got my master's degree in banking and finance.
Speaker 1: Mm.
Speaker 2: So after that, I worked in banks. So pretty much from 2009 onwards, I was in, into banking.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: And 2012, I'd been a financial planner.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: 2012 to 2019, I was a financial planner.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I come from a background of tech, and then pretty much from, you know, and been into finance, you know, as well. So...
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Got a bit of era... Dabbled across all investments or learnt about it, you know, because you do my master's, you know all the... Learn all the theory about finance, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But when it comes step into the real world, you know, it's kind of different, you know?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: How finance, what they teach you and what is actually real. So I've been good at tech before. So saying that when it comes to that, I knew about Bitcoin pretty much a month after it was, the white paper was published.
Speaker 1: Right
Speaker 2: So you know, it was very interesting, you know. I I found the concept really interesting and... But, you know, I didn't know that it was something which will catch on, because I know if it was catch on, it was like, you know, something which had potential. So I didn't get into it. So, you know I didn't buy anything, because there was no way to buy Bitcoin, you know, with... There was no exchange or anything like that.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: It was just a concept I knew. So then 2012 or '10 again, you know, when the price went up to, from $10 to 100, is like, you know, it got, got my interest.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: And then I still didn't buy because there wasn't a way to buy it.
Speaker 1: Mm.
Speaker 2: But there was like, you know, it was
Speaker 1: So let me just ask you a question. How does the price of something go up when there's nowhere to buy it? Does
Speaker 2: The price of... The price of anything is demand and supply.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but where's the demand if you can't buy it? Or was it industries that
Speaker 2: Well, it was So the, it... Outside Australia, they used to ... peer-to-peer.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: Right? So peer-to-peer, there was a lot of peer-to-peer. So that's when, when... You know, remember the Bitcoin pizza story, right? Somebody exchanged 10,000 pizza for a pizza.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: So there was like underground, underground market, like people were just doing peer-to-peer and people were mining it. And then there was the Mt. Gox which came up as well, so people bought from Mt. Gox as well.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: So I saw that collapsing as well. So I had... I, I saw the option of buying it, but I I wasn't very keen on sending money overseas to a Japanese bank
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: ... buying it as well. So I was, you know, still watching it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then there was also the dark market, you know, that's
Speaker 1: Mm.
Speaker 2: the Silk Road, you know. I
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Dabbled with that too. And then I had a little bit left and then that was when, when I had $10, it came to like $150. I was like, "Oh, okay."
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: I did buy it. I think my first Bitcoin, I think was... It was a small amount I bought, was $15 or $20 or something. Yeah. $20 and then it went to 150. And then again, it was something I dabbled, not something I invested kind of thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And 2013 is when when we... 2014 or '13, mid-2013, is when you could buy a Bitcoin with an Australian bank.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: So 2014 is when I spot, you know, few hundred dollars, I think.
Speaker 1: Yeah
Speaker 2: I think, I think the big big investment... So from $200, I think it... I think, I think the first the first time I bought in was 2014. So Bitcoin was $1,000.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: It reached $1,000 and I bought for $1,500 or something, and I saw it crash all the way to $200.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: From 1,500 to $200, it was that 80% crash, you know?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: In the big scheme of things, doesn't look big.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: It it... So it went to 200 and then I bought a substantial amount. My first full Bitcoin, I bought for $280.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: That still have, which is, which good.
Speaker 1: So, yeah. So how, how do you actually like... 'Cause it's... Is it a little bit like micro-investing where you buy bits of shares?
Speaker 2: You can buy for... It's, it's like share. No, shares you can... You have to buy one share, right? Now, with
Speaker 1: Unless you're micro-investing, you can like pool it. You pool, you do pools kind of investment.
Speaker 2: You, you can buy 0.001 of a Bitcoin.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: So you don't have to buy one Bitcoin. Bitcoin is divided... One Bitcoin is thousand, one million Satoshi. So like, it's divided into six decimal points.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: So you could even buy for $1 of Bitcoin, which is possible.
Speaker 1: Right,
Speaker 2: that's not possible now because the fees, you know because in dollar value has gone up so high, you know. But it's possible. So you can buy even $5 or two, $5 worth of Bitcoin even today.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right? So even though one Bitcoin not there you could still buy a small amount. So I bought my first Bitcoin for $280.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: That was my first Bitcoin, you know. I don't plan to sell that ever, because that's got to be you know, it's just there for show, I guess.
Speaker 1: it has a... It's a, it's a marker.
Speaker 2: ... was yeah, you know, it's something to, you know, show that ... Because it's there in the ledger and, you know, you can see that forever.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then yeah. And then I saw that and then started ... So I was a financial planner then, and then I've been buying small amounts, you know, $50 here, $100 there.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: You know. From there I think it ... From the $280 it went, started from 1,000.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: from 1,000 its went to 20,000.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: From 20 ... So that's when I actually started accumulating, you know, good amount, I guess.
Speaker 1: Mm.
Speaker 2: And then I kind of retired from financial ... from there. And retire in the sense I was like, okay, 'cause once you actually understand
Speaker 1: Mm.
Speaker 2: ... you understand, you, you come to a realization everything is a scam.
Speaker 1: Right. Okay. Oh, that's a pretty big statement. 'Cause, there's no ... You don't get dividends or anything, it's just holding and underlying Bitcoin.
Speaker 2: It's the Yes, but you gotta think what is money, right? It comes to you
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: actually coming to the definition of what is money.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Now, coming to the currency thing, especially with the taxes. You know how ... You know 'cause I come from Kuwait where there's been no taxes.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: You know? So I, I grew up in that industry. If somebody said you get paid $3,000 you get paid, you know, that's how I've seen my family and everybody.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: 'Cause everybody's in finance in my family.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So coming here, you know, and the tax concept, even, even though I knew about it, you know,
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Because that concept doesn't get me. Because when you make money, you have to pay tax. When you spend money, you have to make tax. When you invest money, you have to pay tax. When you take profit, you have to pay tax. So there's no end to it. Like, you know, I, I understand we need taxes to pay things
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: to what end?
Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah. Just going and going.
Speaker 2: In, this sense, so in this scam they said That's why I was like, you know, I'd rather have something which is, you know. And everything is tracked so I'd rather have something outside the system. So, over time, you know, I got into that rabbit hole, I guess, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then, because I was a financial planner and then I got to that belief, you
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: ... it, it became harder to actually advise on other investments.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And also you can't, you can't advise on Bitcoin either, you know. Because you can't There's no money to be made by advising Bitcoin.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No. Well, that's, that's true. And
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: Is it? 'Cause it wasn't for a long time, Crypto in general wasn't considered like a formal asset class.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 1: By Australian investment. I don't ... Is it, is it still like that?
Speaker 2: Well, it's still,
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: ... different definition is still ... I'll come to the definition of Bitcoin, what it is kind of thing, so.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: At of the day, but, you know, it was the system and the What, what is Bitcoin I would say is, Bitcoin is energy.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: Money is also energy.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Money is also energy.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: ... Bitcoin is the purest form of energy. Now what is Bitcoin? Now money can, money we see, what we transact can be created out thin air.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: Right? Tomorrow a government or a bank decides we want to press you know, a button, money's created.
Speaker 1: Mm.
Speaker 2: Somebody puts money in the bank and the bank lends it, money's created.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right? Now Bitcoin is the purest form of energy. Now Bitcoin cannot be created out of thin air.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: Right? Now to create, now say for example, to create one Bitcoin in today's terms it takes at least ... You need investments in computers and in, let's say in Australia, you need at least $80,000 worth of electricity to produce. 80 to $100,000 worth of electricity to
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: ... Bitcoin.
Speaker 1: Wow. Okay.
Speaker 2: Right? So it's not something. So what gives it ... Everybody asks me, "How do you value Bitcoin," right?
Speaker 1: Mm.
Speaker 2: The value of Bitcoin is how much electricity it it takes to generate a, a Bitcoin.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: And the investment and the infrastructure to create that one Bitcoin.
Speaker 1: Yeah. But that's not what Bitcoin costs though.
Speaker 2: That's what Bitcoin cost. Now what gives it value, that's demand and supply.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: But you said before you bought a Bitcoin for $280.
Speaker 2: Yes. That, at that time Bitcoin was cheaper to produce.
Speaker 1: Okay. All right. So why does the cost go up?
Speaker 2: Well, the cost goes up because ... Now that's the beauty of Bitcoin too. Now the longer it stays it gets harder to mine.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: Right? So back in the day you when it started I think it was don't, and don't quote me on this but I'm just giving you a number.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: You could create 100 Bitcoins a day.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: Okay? Now there's something called halving. Every four years 100 Bitcoins becomes 50 Bitcoins.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: Every day there's only 100 Bitcoins created and that's distributed throughout the world.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: Okay? On one block. You know, one block kind of thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I'm just saying for easy purposes. So one day, every one day there's only 100 Bitcoins which can be generated.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: Right? After four years it becomes only 50 Bitcoins can be generated.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. Okay.
Speaker 2: Right? After, after the next four years, only 25.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: After that, now it's come to a point there's only ... 21.25 Bitcoins created.
Speaker 1: Right. So there is a genuine limit to supply?
Speaker 2: There's a, there, there's a Now, the final limit is 21 million.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: Okay? There's not one more, not one less.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: Okay? Now, we have reached to a point of 20 million, so now the funny thing is the 21st million gets only generated in the year 2140.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: All right.
Speaker 2: So when, when it started, it generated a lot of Bitcoin, and then over time, you know, the number
Speaker 1: Finishing.
Speaker 2: ... the coins generated was less and less.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: All right?
Speaker 1: So
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Sorry. No, you keep going.
Speaker 2: Oh, okay. So what gives it the value is the scarcity.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: now another thing is also, the longer Bitcoin stays, the more secure the network is.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: Now if you look at the bank network, dollar network, there's always something is always hacked.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: the banks always go down, all right? So when it comes to Bitcoin, if you look at the history of
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Bitcoin has been running since the start of 2009. It's been running 24/7, never been hacked, it never, it's a mathematical formula, right?
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: It has always been running. Now, the longer it runs, the more secure the network is.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: Right? So the more time it takes, it's next to impossible to get is to hack it.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: Right? So initially if it started, it was easy to hack kind of thing, but nobody was using it kind of thing. But the longer it runs, the more transactions, that's
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: ... that's why it's called blockchain, right? The more transactions a blockchain have, the more secure it is.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: All right? And that's why Bitcoin is very unique, because Bitcoin's the first, first mover.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right? nobody can manipulate time, you know? You can't start a Bitcoin and say it's stronger than Bitcoin, because it's next to impossible, because it has proven its thing, you know?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So Bitcoin Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, 'cause you've got other things, not just Bitcoin. There's like Ethereum, there's, Dogecoin. There's all sorts of things.
Speaker 2: there's lot of altcoin. with the concept of blockchain and cryptocurrency, right?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So anybody can create crypto out of thin air. You can
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: AlphaCoin tomorrow.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: I think there was an AlphaCoin already.
Speaker 1: Blank.
Speaker 2: anybody can create an AlphaCoin tomorrow.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: But it, won't be as secure as Bitcoin, because you need to keep running. So the network... Now, Bitcoin runs... So every crypto runs a certain way of mining. So Bitcoin, Ethereum used to be mining, so you need electricity to produce Bitcoin, right?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Ethereum was like that too, but past 2022, they changed the way how Bitcoin is mined. So they did something called staking.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: So it's a different concept. But Bitcoin has been the same, right?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But the thing with Bitcoin is, the rules can't be changed, because we don't know the founder. You know? We all know there's a Satoshi Nakamoto.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: There's no, there's no Bitcoin CEO, there's no Bitcoin headquarters.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: There's no Bitcoin marketing company, there's no Bitcoin customer support.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right? And when you compare it to other Bitcoins, there's always a founder, there's always a, a a what do committee.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: you know? So if they want to shut down a a crypto, let's say Ethereum, you just have to kidnap the founder or kill the founder, that's it.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: That can be done. You know?
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: That's why it makes Bitcoin brilliant, because the founder, he knew the risk of it and he stepped out. Because if he's part of the limelight, he gets associated to it.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. Yeah, he's at risk.
Speaker 2: that's the risk. So he stepped out of it, there's nobody to support it, and it works on a community thing. So that that's one of the maybe drawbacks, because the development of Bitcoin will be
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: because there's nobody to make a decision.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Who will improve it? Now, it works on a consensus basis, so that means for some change to happen, everybody in every Bitcoin holder should approve it. It's a voting system.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: Right? So it's next to impossible to make everyone agree to one thing. Right?
Speaker 1: Giant body corporate.
Speaker 2: It's a giant body corporate which is decentralized, which is there's no, there's no one person who can make a decision or make anything, right?
Speaker 1: Yeah. So nothing's going to change.
Speaker 2: Nothing's going to change. So that's what makes the 21 million. Will stay 21 million, not one less or more, right?
Speaker 1: So do people buy and hold Bitcoin? Or is it... Because I was just reading an article last night that was talking about how there's some education, like, so schools, I think it was in England, that are now allowing people to pay for the school fees with Bitcoin.
Speaker 2: Yes. You can. Yeah but that's that's a strategy as well. that's one of the drawbacks of Bitcoin I would say too, because, because there's a 21 million cap, right?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: What is the incentive of selling it?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: There's no incentive of selling it, because I know it's going to go up forever.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right? And that's one other thing. I have a lot of Bitcoin but I I don't want to sell it because I know it's going to go up, because as long as money is being printed, Bitcoin is gonna go up.
Speaker 1: Yeah. But you also don't earn anything on that money. It just sits there.
Speaker 2: It just, it sits there, but it's in inflation kind of covers it already, right?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So it's like gold, right?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: ... gold, the thing is you can create more of gold. Right?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So tomorrow, tomorrow you know, there's some technology, somebody, asteroid mining or somebody finds a new mine, there can be more gold created. Now, Bitcoin...
Speaker 1: That's it.
Speaker 2: Theres no... Yes, but it's there's no, what do you call dividend or anything like that, but it's a finite amount.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right? So as... And we all know money's gonna be printed forever, you know? They're not gonna stop printing money.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: So the value of it is just purely demand driven. Because supply is limited.
Speaker 2: value of it is the cost price, all right?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The cost of making it.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: Let's say the cost of making it in Australian dollars is $120,000.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right? If it goes below $120,000, that means the people who mine Bitcoin are at a loss.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So if they're at a loss, why would they sell Bitcoin? They would rather hold it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: 'Cause they know that it's gonna go up, because it's limited.
Speaker 1: Gonna up again.
Speaker 2: Right? So anything over, let's say, the price of Bitcoin is 120. Anything over 120 is speculation.
Speaker 1: Yeah.Okay.
Speaker 2: Right? So if you want to know what's the price of... Now, it's like 121, you know, 115 Australian dollars, so that's the price of... But it also... The electricity prices is different in every places too.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: So if you go to Iran or India or something, price of... You could create one Bitcoin in $50,000.
Speaker 1: So who's creating it?
Speaker 2: The miners. So the computers.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: ... Bitcoin works on a... It's, it's an algorithm, right? So, eh, when it, when it solves an algorithm, when it solves a
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: whoever solves the puzzle gets rewarded a Bitcoin.
Speaker 1: Right. So are there people actively trying to solve it, or do they have they built the blocks?
Speaker 2: computers are actively... You know, it's continuously, actively trying to solve, right?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So the
Speaker 1: And it's humans solving it, not machines?
Speaker 2: No, machines.
Speaker 1: Machines solving it. Okay.
Speaker 2: Machines machines he, he... I mean, before, we could mine it with a normal laptop, when it started.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right? And then you needed graphics cards to you know, to mine in Bitcoin.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: you need special high-end computers to
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: ... 'Cause the more it runs, the more secure it becomes, the more harder the cup, the... So as time goes by, the, the puzzle gets harder and harder to solve.
Speaker 1: So is there a tipping point at which people have just missed the boat and they're just, there's no point in trying to buy Bitcoin anymore? Or will
Speaker 2: No,
Speaker 1: always be, once, even once it's reached that 21
Speaker 2: So 21
Speaker 1: ... there'll still be demand?
Speaker 2: 21 million, 21 million, so the concept why he did it, 21 million reaches at the year 2140.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right? So they believe for, you know, to, for it to work... So they won't be mining, but for transactions to happen, even the computer... So the, so for me to send one Bitcoin to you or, you know, when we there's a network fees.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: Right? There's a fee which gets paid to the miner. So whoever is running the computer, whoever solves the puzzle, and somebody does a transaction, the miner gets a fee for the transaction.
Speaker 1: Right. Okay.
Speaker 2: So when it comes to that big, when you what they expect is at 20 or 40, Bitcoin will be so popular that everybody will be use, using so many
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: the miners will get paid by the networking fees.
Speaker 1: Okay. But the miners won't be mining anymore because there'll
Speaker 2: The mining the mining will be used for transactions.
Speaker 1: Just the transactions, okay.
Speaker 2: Not for creating new Bitcoins.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So how how do you buy it then at the moment? 'Cause how do you know who's mining it and where to buy it from?
Speaker 2: The, What the miners do is... So once they mine it, once they have they sell it to exchanges or sell it
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: exchange and sell it back. So there's a lot of... in Australia, so there's ten exchanges where you can buy directly.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: Swyftx, Coinspot you know, CoinJar. There's like ten different
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: ... exchanges. Like a share exchange, right? you go to an exchange, you can buy ... kind of thing.
Speaker 1: And they're all legitimate?
Speaker 2: They're all legitimate. Yes. They're all legitimate. Like, you
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: that's why you, you can have SMSF in crypto. You
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: they're all going through that AFSL, and they have got all
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: system. So the, the miners create the
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: and they sell it to the exchanges,
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: the exchanges give it to regular people. Now, if you want to mine your own Bitcoin, your, you can buy a machine at home and mine too. There's nothing stopping you from doing that. You don't ... any permission or you don't need any... There's no regulation for it. It's just a matter of buying a computer, plug it and turn it on. You can start mining Bitcoin.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Probably a little bit more to it than that, 'cause I wouldn't even know where to start.
Speaker 2: No, there's no "more" to that. It's
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: simple as that.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: Right? You, you buy that
Speaker 1: there's gotta be some like algorithm-y thing that you
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: "Mine Bitcoin."
Speaker 2: Mine... Yeah. So the, the... When you buy that machine, it's
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: ... already.
Speaker 1: Oh, okay. So there, there are specific machines for mining Bitcoin.
Speaker 2: There's specific machines. So
Speaker 1: Gotcha.
Speaker 2: come to that page where... So when you used to do GPU, you need to have the software to run it, and, you
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: ... bit technical. But once it's run, that's it, you know?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Anybody can learn it by watching a YouTube video. It's, it's not ... hard if you know a of computer kind of... But it's, it's that easy.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: if, if you want to mine crypto or, you know, let's say Bitcoin,
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: just buying the computer and turning on. It's you don't need any license, you don't need any regulation.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And, and when you do, when you are actually mining, you're it's actually good for the network. You're
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: ... supporting the network.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: It's the more miners there are, the more decentralized it is.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: Right? So if... Because if there's only less machines
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: then that means somebody's
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: thing.
Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah, yeah. Then go back to the, the same we're in now.
Speaker 2: Then it becomes centralized kind of thing. And that's what ... that's the beauty of Bitcoin. So the more price goes up, the more miners get in,
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: more it gets spread out and more harder it becomes to you know to hack or, you know. But when it's a new crypto, somebody starts a new machine, he can just hog everything and control everything kind of thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: that's the... Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so at the moment, what's the cheapest that people could get into buying crypto? 'Cause you said it's... My my math isn't that great. At work, I can't like
Speaker 2: $110,000 US.
Speaker 1: To buy one? Like to buy coins?
Speaker 2: is $110,000 US.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But you can buy $10 worth of Bitcoin.
Speaker 1: $10? Okay.
Speaker 2: Or five or, I ... exchanges allow $2 or $3 up to also. I think the fee is ... 0.4%. But you can buy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: It is possible. So you can even buy point, .00001 Bitcoin.
Speaker 1: Right. Yep,
Speaker 2: So
Speaker 1: So just divide that 120,000 by six to get to the amount sort of thing?
Speaker 2: Yeah, correct. So you can buy for pretty much for even cents. If somebody's willing to give you 10 cents of Bitcoin, you can get that too.
Speaker 1: Oh, okay. Right. That's neat.
Speaker 2: exchanges don't do that because, you know, it's not cost-effective because there's still the network
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: you have to cover, right?
Speaker 1: Yeah, for each transaction.
Speaker 2: you can buy... There are people who buy... You can, you can do the dollar-cost averaging of $10 a week.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, 'cause that's, that's one of the things too, it's like getting in it, and if... 'cause there was this, always this idea that, like, with shares, you have to buy one. It's like trying to buy Berkshire Hathaway. Who's going to spend a million dollars on a share
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: Berkshire Hathaway? No one.
Speaker 2: Correct.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, industry funds
Speaker 2: Correct.
Speaker 1: the bigger, the
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: ... groups like that,
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 1: as an individual,
Speaker 2: Or when you go to get an ETF which buys that, and then you buy a part of it or something.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's it.
Speaker 2: But that's the beauty of crypto. You can buy part of it. You don't have to buy one of it. And that's how it was, and that's why the guy who made it
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: ... brilliant, like, you know?
Speaker 1: Brilliant, yeah.
Speaker 2: In the sense he didn't invent the concept of Bitcoin himself, but what he took is he took different mathematical
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: combined them into one. So what was already
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: you know, so they say, so even Bitcoin, how it's mined, there's actually, the concept was published by the CIA. Right? How so it's like the internet. The internet was you know, by, it was, it was published
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: you know, it was created by
Speaker 1: It was a government agency originally, yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So so Bitcoin is mined on the algorithm called SHA, SHA-2556.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: Because it's like a foolproof can't be hacked kind of thing. And that was the concept, which was generated by the CIA. It was a public thing, so...
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So he took different concepts and made into one, you know, one system which a money system, which
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: ... fair and, you know, which can't be you know, broken kind of thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: but the other cryptos, like the Ethereum's and whatever, they, they operate differently 'cause they've
Speaker 2: They operate differently, right?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: How many coins are generated, the rules. So that's why when you buy crypto, you have to look at
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: ... you know, the things. So it's not the same, you know? How would... Bitcoin and Ethereum will be different because the number of coins is different.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: Who owns it is different. How is it created is different.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: You have to do all that
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: before you get into and that's why I would say Bitcoin is the safest and the strongest because there's nothing like it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: There are a few other coins which does
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: but Bitcoin has been there the longest because it will be the most secure network. It's
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: most adopted. And that, you know, and every other crypto. So I would say usually is if you buy other crypto, you've got to look at... Im I buy other crypto to make more Bitcoin.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right? So the other... instead of, instead of thinking, "I buy other crypto to make more dollars," you think of, "I buy other crypto to make more Bitcoin." Now, if you buy
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: ... Bitcoin, if you're down in Bitcoin, that
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: you're actually making a loss. You know, some people, "Oh, I made a lot of dollars in," but you're better off holding Bitcoin because Bitcoin has actually
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: better than everybody else.
Speaker 1: And so does it kind ... if somebody's looking at it at, at a portfolio and they have, you know, they have a property, they've got some shares, they may have some go... You know, whatever they... If they're trying to look at it
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: ... do they, can they put a dollar figure to the Bitcoin at like... Say for instance, I, I, I do a quarterly performance report for my stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So would I convert the Bitcoin to dollars to add that so that I could kind of compare it to everything else that I've got? 'Cause otherwise, if I'm comparing Bitcoin it's like
Speaker 2: ...
Speaker 1: ... and oranges.
Speaker 2: Correct. Now, correct. Agreed. So that's where you have to understand what is your concept of money. My concept of money is Bitcoin, right?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So when I buy something, I
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: "How much Bitcoin it takes to buy this?"
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I price everything in Bitcoin. Now you look at price of houses, right? In 2013, I could buy a it took me 20 Bitcoins to buy a house.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: Now, it takes... No, yeah, now it takes less than a Bitcoin to buy a house. Oh, not less than. It takes five Bitcoins to buy a house.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: In 2014, I think it was 40 Bitcoins you, to buy a house.
Speaker 1: Mm.
Speaker 2: Now it's only one Bitcoin to buy a house.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: Right? So when So everybody has a different concept of money, right? So...
Speaker 1: Can you actually buy a house with Bitcoin, though?
Speaker 2: If people accept it, yes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if they accept it, yeah.
Speaker 2: Right? If people accept it, why not, you know? Australia, there are some people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the same as when I, when I started to, to like get... 'Cause I'm interested in like what is money.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: so when I started to go back into history, it had started out as things like
Speaker 2: Yeah. Correct.
Speaker 1: ... until it actually became the form of like current, like, gold or silver before, and now it's like numbers on a screen.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: it's one of those things. You're right. It can, it kind of almost become whatever we want, but as long as somebody's willing to accept it.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 1: But it has to have like more mass acceptance for that to happen. And I think it was it Bolivia was one of the first countries to, like, legally accept Bitcoin as a, as a currency?
Speaker 2: El Salvador. El Salvador.
Speaker 1: There we are, yeah.
Speaker 2: El Salvador they have, they made it official. But here's the thing. When I value portfolio, right,
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: So the thing with Bitcoin, it's hard to measure assets in Bitcoin because Bitcoin is very volatile, right? It changes, the money changes. The best way for, you know, let's say for yourself, for your clients, is to value your portfolio in gold.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: Gold is the best value, best indicator of measuring your assets, right?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So if you look at again, I don't remember the numbers off, off top of my head. If you look at 1970 houses, I, I can tell you this. In 1920, it took one ounce of gold to buy a premium suit.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: Today, it, to buy a premium suit, it still costs one ounce of gold.
Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, the gold price has just gone up. Well, the value of
Speaker 2: But, but, has it? Has it really? That's the thing.
Speaker 1: The perception of it has gone up.
Speaker 2: So dollar price, what's happened, the gold hasn't gone up. The price of dollar has gone down.
Speaker 1: Yes. True. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right? Yeah. That, that's what you do. So when you look at house
Speaker 1: It's Yeah.
Speaker 2: ... you're comparing your... That's where you
Speaker 1: And even to, like, Aussie dollars. If you compare it to US dollars, that's different again, right?
Speaker 2: Different again.
Speaker 1: Whereas the gold is still the gold.
Speaker 2: But gold is still good. And if you look at Aussie dollars, it's still gone down. US dollars has still gone down. Right? So if you look at houses in 2008, it probably took one kilo or it I think it took five kilos of gold to buy a house.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: Today, it's four kilos of you know, for, you know... So you got to measure how much gold it took to buy a house back then and how much gold it took to buy a house back today.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Now, if you if you think gold has gone up substantially, no, it hasn't. Gold is still the
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: because inflation, price, the price of everything has gone up double or triple, right? And the gold is just catching up to the reality of life.
Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So if you look at a thing... So when you measure, sometimes it goes up and down because, you know, demand and supply of houses again.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right? But you always... I, I measure house prices in gold.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: How much gold or silver it took to buy a house back in the, you know, for our parents and how much it took for today.
Speaker 1: But if you're going to a real estate agent to buy a house, they're gonna measure it differently.
Speaker 2: Yeah. But that's perception. Money is, again, it's It's a concept what people have, right? So...
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And if you look at currencies, no currency has lasted more than 70 years.
Speaker 1: Okay
Speaker 2: Right? Every currency after 70, 80 years has gone to zero. Paper currencies.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: So what is money? Or what is the only form of money which has survived the test of time?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Gold and silver.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right? Everything else is just temporary.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right? It just it just takes two or three generations, that money just changes. The you know, the definition of that money changes.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So you, when you do your research to see if house price is overvalued or not, compare the house prices in gold.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And that's when you know it's undervalued or overvalued. Even the share portfolio, right?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So check the share port-... If I bought gold in this today, compared to, you know... Shares have done really well. Like, you know, I think they consistently done well. But again, if you compare to gold, I think sometimes gold will do better than share. Or, you know, because it's just keeping up with inflation and keeping up the real... The value of stuff is always consistent with gold.
Speaker 1: Yeah. But it's an interesting thing because it's, it's a real, like, mindset shift
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 1: what is money. so on the one hand, all of that, I can understand that. It does make sense. But we still live in this world where the construct of money is controlled centrally. You know, we have, you know, dollars. We go to the supermarket and we pay with, you know, like tapping or whatever, but it's still a dollar value behind it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So it's...
Speaker 2: But here, here's a... Wait, think of it this way. Let me put it this way. Ill put, I'll, I'll give you a statement. Gold is God's money.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: Bitcoin is people's money.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: A dollar is slave's money.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Oh, no. And that all makes... yeah.
Speaker 2: it's, it works on debt. dollar is debt.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's not money, it's debt.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Gold is created by God, you know. That is money.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Bitcoin is created by a person because that's people's money.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's decentralized. Dollar what we see is somebody else's debt.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Okay. The money you hold is, it's money you owe to somebody else.
Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah. It's, it's, it's borrowed from a bank or
Speaker 2: But, that concept, we've been been brainwashed to think money is actually money because that is... It's not. It's
Speaker 1: And... Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's devalued.
Speaker 1: And this is, this is why the mindset around money is so, like... we're, we're so messed up because if self-worth is linked to the money in the bank that we have, it's like the, that's such the wrong measure.
Speaker 2: That's... We've been brainwashed. I mean, that... I mean, that's what we've been taught in school, right? You know. So, I
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was the same too. But when you start getting to the rabbit hole and then that's when... Coming back to my story, right? You know, when I came into this, this is when I decided, you know, it was hard for me to get, be, continue with financial because I wanted to start my own practice and stuff. But, you ... legislation and stuff wasn't good. So I quit my financial planning in 2018.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then I moved to... I traveled for a year or so and then moved to 2019.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: moved to Brisbane.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: And then I started my own business. So I sta-... I wanted to start... I started like a crypto business thing. What I did is, you know the mining machines? I actually used to build and sell those machines.
Speaker 1: I was gonna... I was actually curious. So when you talked about machines, I was like, "Do you have a machine?" Have you been mining crypto?
Speaker 2: I did. did mine crypto. I mined crypto not Bitcoin. Bitcoin was far out of reach because you need specialized machine. But I was mining Ethereum. So I used to build those machine, computer graphics machines.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I I did that for two and a half years because I knew there was an opportunity there.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I did that, you know, did well, I think, for that. And then I sold that bus... Like 2022 is when I decided because ... moved from mining to proof of stake. You know, they changed the
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: it was created.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So, and then I got into consulting, you know, crypto consultancy. So I still have clients I look after with their crypto portfolios.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: You know, teach them and all this. So I did that for 2022. And while I was doing this when, is when I got, stumbled into the CRM. So I built for my business, you know, I built a CRM system for myself.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: And then it came to, oh, actually, I could actually offer this to other business owners and build this because I was, I was good at tech side too. So I built a CRM system and I met, you know, I found GoHighLevel and
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: was like, oh, actually I could actually help other business and make a living out of this because I knew crypto, the thing with crypto is it goes up, it goes in cycles, right?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So you, make your money and then you have to wait three, four years before the next cycle comes.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: So I was like, what am I going to do in between?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I, I needed something, a cash flow business, which is consistent.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: You know, where I can't just make, you know, make relationships and then stay quiet for four, three, four years and then come out, out of the woodwork.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And and the perception of society is still, you know, they think crypto is a scam and, you know, and, and to be fair too, like, you know, because there are lot of cowboys out
Speaker 1: Mm.
Speaker 2: ... you know, which can give a bad name too.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I I, and I didn't want to be in the spotlight because, you know I know in the future, if you are known in society that you have a lot of Bitcoin, you can be a target very easily.
Speaker 1: Mm.
Speaker 2: So I, you know, that's when I'm into the CRM business now, you know, since 2022, for three years I've been in CRM and here I am, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: That's your first question here.
Speaker 1: Oh,
Speaker 2: How do I get into crypto?
Speaker 1: How, we, we, we don't, 'cause there were so many questions I had about this 'cause, 'cause when I first met you, that didn't come up at all. It was all about your CRM
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 1: and setting that up, and then little by little as I've got to know you better, I was like, "Oh, there's like, there's a whole nother layer to this. I need to ... this a bit more," 'cause I'm crypto curious, let's put it that way. Mainly because it's something I don't understand and I don't like not understanding things.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yes, you
Speaker 1: And there's so much that's going on in the world that, yeah, there's, there's a, there's a real shift.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 1: I feel like over the last few years, the collective energy of the world is shifting.
Speaker 2: It, will because now here, I'll tell you why it has not caught on. Now, 80% of the money is held by boomers, all right? Now, they are all invested over there. Now, my generation and above, we all know Bitcoin are back of mind, you know, it is the thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The thing is the shift what is happening now, it's the
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: ... boomers to leave this planet.
Speaker 1: Yeah. done.
Speaker 2: You know, we're, we're giving it, we're having this generational
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: where the boomers are by 2030, 90% of boomers are pretty much done.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: know, they're off this planet.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: that's when that big shift is going, I, I see that big shift is gonna
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: because that wealth is gonna be passed down to my generation. What do you think we are gonna do? We're not gonna be buying houses. You know, we've seen everything, you know, the work it takes to all those things. I'd rather have Bitcoin than have houses. You I want a house to live, yes.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But because the way things are going, you know, the government takes a cut, you know.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: There's so much tax to pay. You know, you can see all this,
Speaker 1: Well, want people to have the money to buy, like I, 'cause I've thought about as well, like in terms of investment property and while that, that system has made sense perhaps in the past, I was like, if, the more houses I have, the less somebody else can have. I want everyone to be able to have their own home.
Speaker 2: Yeah. and it's a landlord mindset and then you, you know, and the price goes up. So yes, prices are going up now, but the opposite can happen too. So imagine, I mean, if two or three people in an area, you know foreclosed kind of house, didn't pay their
Speaker 1: Mm.
Speaker 2: ... immediately the rest of the house are gonna drop as well, right?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Prices are going up because your neighbor is selling at a higher price and neighbors say, "Oh, his price of house is worth $1 million. My worth should be 1.2."
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But the opposite can be happen too. So it's like a house of cards. So
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: if in the suburb five houses decide, you know, they decide they can't pay the loan, every other house prices are gonna drop.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: House prices or houses are also the same, demand and supply.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Right? It'll be quick as well. But the next generation are not gonna hold onto houses. I know that
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: ... we are all digital. It's gonna be digital real estate. You know, having a website a digital real estate is worth more than a house. You know, there's no maintenance. You don't have to do all that. You know, that we, we know that,
Speaker 1: And capital gains tax on it.
Speaker 2: All that tax. So the thing is, our generation, we don't have the wealth. We don't have the money in our hand. All that wealth is the boomer's. So that
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: gonna happen in the next five years.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: Yes. No, it's,
Speaker 2: It's early. We're still early, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Nobody knows about Bitcoin yet.
Speaker 1: No. I mean, it's interesting. I mean, we talk about financial literacy in general and that, that's not happening. So not only are we not learning financial literacy, we're also not learning about this.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So it's, it's an important message to share too because when wealth, there is a wealth transfer, you're right, that's that's happening and it started to happen. Its then a matter of, well, the old
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: aren't really supporting the, our generation. So we've gotta look at other things, and this is where it
Speaker 2: we are very digital. Like, you know, our generation, we, you know, we are, we are very you know, we are very comfortable with buying things online and you know. Its just the older, you know, the people who have money, they're all old school. They're not all, you know. So when that moves in, into this and
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: is already getting digital already anyway.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: So would you rather have digital dollars or would you have something which is outside the government system, you know?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Its only a matter of time, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. No, it's a, it's a, it's a fascinating concept actually. Yeah. So, no, I am... So if people wanted to know more, do you take on clients still in this space?
Speaker 2: I do help people if they do if they want to ask questions. So, you know, I, you know, I do take it as a financial approach kind of thing, but you know, ... more of a conservative when it comes to crypto, you know. don't... I teach them to trade, but I never tell people what to invest on, you know.
Speaker 1: No. Just him.
Speaker 2: But, you know, but I I still say Bitcoin, you know. I will still say keep everything in Bitcoin, but nobody listens to me when I say that. Everybody, somehow they like the next shiny thing, you know.
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1: see, I'm, I'm, I'm a slower, not a slow like I'm, I'm, yeah. I'm more like you. I'm like, "I'll go for what's-"
Speaker 2: even if
Speaker 1: It's all
Speaker 2: strictly say don't buy anything other than crypto other than Bitcoin, five months later, six months later, I say they end up with no Bitcoin and they buy other coins. I, I, just people's... They just like to go for the next shiny thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Or, or, you know, they They... the gambling mindset, you know, they just want to make quick money kind of thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. But, you know, you just have to hold on. And like I said, if you had Bitcoin, I, I remember saying this to you. Anybody, if you look at the past 15 years-Anybody who's hold, held Bitcoin for three years, minimum three
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: has never lost money, never lost in dollar value.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The thing is no, majority of them don't have the patience to hold it for at least three years. They can hold
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 2: for so long because it's hard to sell.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The thing is because crypto is very liquid and easy to buy and
Speaker 1: Mm.
Speaker 2: ... 90, 99% of them don't have the patience to hold it for that long. And
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 2: who's held it for three
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: ... at any point of time, you buy any point of time, you've held that crypto for three years, it has never lost money. You can't say that about the crypto because 90% of the coins which existed has never lasted more than five years.
Speaker 1: Right. Okay.
Speaker 2: Right. The,
Speaker 1: So what causes some of those coins to disappear?
Speaker 2: Because it's all a scam because somebody does always founder, they run away with it. The people lose trust in it. There's no community.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: It it doesn't, there's not secure. Or somebody comes and scams or, you know, something always... Because crypto is Yes. Crypto is not a scam but the people who use it is a scam, right? It's, it's the human element which is... So bitcoin is very mathematically secure, it can't be broken, right? But it's the people who actually use it, it makes it harder, right?
Speaker 1: Yeah, 'cause there was a... Was it a few years ago? There was someone, it was an exchange I think that he, he ran away.
Speaker 2: FX. 2022, yes, I had some
Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was part of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah
Speaker 1: And then
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, that was all government thing and, you know, that, that's things, the human element is
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: you know, makes people wary of it and stuff, you know?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And people
Speaker 1: Which is what you're saying bitcoin doesn't have 'cause it doesn't have that human element.
Speaker 2: Bitcoin does... There's no human element of it and that can't be broken.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: that's why bitcoin is, it's gonna be the strongest, there's no second best, there can't be a you know. It's gonna be hard for bitcoin to be replaced, you know?
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Goodness. Yeah. No, it's given me a lot to think about. So if people... I'll put some details in the show notes if anybody wants to find out more. Do you have like a way that they can, if they wanna reach out to you?
Speaker 2: You can come, you just contact me on my web, business website. So my website is Pixogram Digital, so sujith@... My website is sujith.pixogram.digital.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay. I'll put that in the show notes.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 1: So we can
Speaker 2: just contact me. I'm happy to, you know, it's, it's not my, I don't make any income from it but I, I want to, I'm more into educating people and getting them into you know, into it kind of thing, you know. the more people get into it, you know, my investments will do better, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We
Speaker 2: But I can't, I can't profit from
Speaker 1: increase the demand.
Speaker 2: There's no profit in bitcoin, you know. That's why bitcoin's not catching up, because nobody can profit from it, you know?
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. No, it's no, it's really interesting 'cause like I said like, there's, there's a, our constructs are going to need to change and the way we look at things too,
Speaker 2: I think once the boomers you know, when the wealth, wealth transfer
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: you know, because I, we, we have the mindset, it's just we don't have capital, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much. I hope everyone you've enjoyed that and those, there's a lot in there. And it's a, it's a little bit of a mind shift as well to, to start thinking about this. But it's an important thing to, to consider too as far as like the wealth building side of things goes. So thank you again, Sujit, for coming on.
Speaker 2: buy bitcoin small amounts, you know. I would still say buy bitcoin at, you know, $100 here, $10 here, just keep doing that. Don't, don't look at the price of bitcoin 108,000 because like I said, it can be divisible, right?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So if you're putting money for any
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: ... three years, you will be ahead than most people.
Speaker 1: Well, like you said, dollar cost averaging, I mean, that's how I invest anyway. Like I don't, I don't look... I mean, I, I know what's happening in the markets 'cause
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I keep an eye on it, but that's not what dictates when I buy.
Speaker 2: That's it. Because and that's, and bitcoin keeps it's very volatile and that's why the dollar cost averaging will be much more effective.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, because it's got the risk.
Speaker 2: You put big amounts. Always spread $10 here, $100 here, you will be ahead. I, I I'm giving you financial advice here. You will be ahead, you know, right? Only bitcoin, right? As long as you do that, buy small amounts you will get ahead.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Wonderful. Oh, well, thank you very much and thank you everyone for listening and I will catch you next week.
Speaker 2: Thank you speak soon.
